Attorney Natallia Matskevich, who defended Siarhei Tsikhanouski and Viktar Babarika, gave an interview to the Barys Zvozskau Human Rights House. The full interview can be readat the link.
Natalia shared the story of her entry into advocacy and human rights. Here are some excerpts.
"...I entered BSU [Belarusian State University] and graduated from it. What did they teach us at law school? They taught us that once upon a time there was history and theory of law. And now there is legislation. And you have to study it and work on it. As I understand now, we were taught a positivist approach: the state creates norms, we should live by these norms, we should not violate them, a lawyer should be guided by them. Of course, by that time it was already said that some lawyers could "circumvent" the norms, come up with creative approaches. But at first I was not interested in that. In general, I wasn't very interested in law as such, I couldn't believe that I would work as a lawyer for the rest of my life.... I didn't think I could be a lawyer. I was lucky: I met Lyudmila Ulyashina, she was a well-known business lawyer, from that cohort of lawyers who could work with new legislation, and could quickly grasp the amended laws. It was on her recommendation that I became a lawyer...".
"...In the first years I worked like this: there is a law — you have to apply it. There was still a different legal ethic and there were other professionals. Judges, prosecutors, although they came from the Soviet system and had Soviet views, they were decent people, for the most part. A judge was an adult, mature person who respected the law. Of course, there was no individualised approach to people; they judged according to the letter of the law: if there was evidence, there was imprisonment..."
"...And that is probably when [note - in 2010] human rights defenders reconsidered their attitude towards attorneys, and finally stopped being hostile to us after 2011, when attorneys’ heads fell. When those attorneys who defended presidential candidates were expelled from the profession by the authorities. Yes, we had to pay that price then — to show that attorneys are human rights defenders as well. And in 2020, attorneys paid even more, a huge price. Before 2020, we — I say "we" about us, about everyone who speaks the language of human rights — thought there were few among attorneys who promoted these values. We knew them by names. But in 2020, dozens of attorneys joined these ranks and confirmed that we are human rights defenders in principle, that we are part of the human rights community. This should be recognised and this is what we should strive for — that the next bar should be fully human rights-oriented. .... All the foreign attorneys I know — Polish, Lithuanian, and other countries — they do not understand why it is necessary to separate attorneys and human rights defenders. They say, "Attorneys are human rights defenders!" The cases that followed for me concerned human rights, and in Belarusian conditions it means with political overtones. Political overtones are not necessarily connected with participation in political processes, like the cases of Babarika and Tsikhanouski. These are cases about the suppression by the state of the realisation of human rights: freedom of speech, freedom of assembly... For this purpose, the state used either administrative cases or criminal cases to intimidate — as in the case of the “White Legion”, which took place against the background of protests...".
"...Belarus is not just a territory. It is people. What I started with — I have always been interested in people. If you are interested in them, if it is important for you to work for them, if you can help them with your modest contribution — you are obliged to help, and it is not so important where you do it. Yes, I can't open prison doors and I don't have anywhere to write complaints anymore. But education, enlightenment — I believe in that. If we don't do it now, if we don't study human rights, if we don't inculcate this culture into society, if we don't talk about human rights violations, if we don't prepare a state based on the rule of law and professionals for it, then Belarus will soon be left only a scorched field. Look what they do now in Belarus with students, with lawyers — everyone is forced to keep silent. But if we agree with this, then why do people sit in prisons, for what?".
Natalia shared the story of her entry into advocacy and human rights. Here are some excerpts.
"...I entered BSU [Belarusian State University] and graduated from it. What did they teach us at law school? They taught us that once upon a time there was history and theory of law. And now there is legislation. And you have to study it and work on it. As I understand now, we were taught a positivist approach: the state creates norms, we should live by these norms, we should not violate them, a lawyer should be guided by them. Of course, by that time it was already said that some lawyers could "circumvent" the norms, come up with creative approaches. But at first I was not interested in that. In general, I wasn't very interested in law as such, I couldn't believe that I would work as a lawyer for the rest of my life.... I didn't think I could be a lawyer. I was lucky: I met Lyudmila Ulyashina, she was a well-known business lawyer, from that cohort of lawyers who could work with new legislation, and could quickly grasp the amended laws. It was on her recommendation that I became a lawyer...".
"...In the first years I worked like this: there is a law — you have to apply it. There was still a different legal ethic and there were other professionals. Judges, prosecutors, although they came from the Soviet system and had Soviet views, they were decent people, for the most part. A judge was an adult, mature person who respected the law. Of course, there was no individualised approach to people; they judged according to the letter of the law: if there was evidence, there was imprisonment..."
"...And that is probably when [note - in 2010] human rights defenders reconsidered their attitude towards attorneys, and finally stopped being hostile to us after 2011, when attorneys’ heads fell. When those attorneys who defended presidential candidates were expelled from the profession by the authorities. Yes, we had to pay that price then — to show that attorneys are human rights defenders as well. And in 2020, attorneys paid even more, a huge price. Before 2020, we — I say "we" about us, about everyone who speaks the language of human rights — thought there were few among attorneys who promoted these values. We knew them by names. But in 2020, dozens of attorneys joined these ranks and confirmed that we are human rights defenders in principle, that we are part of the human rights community. This should be recognised and this is what we should strive for — that the next bar should be fully human rights-oriented. .... All the foreign attorneys I know — Polish, Lithuanian, and other countries — they do not understand why it is necessary to separate attorneys and human rights defenders. They say, "Attorneys are human rights defenders!" The cases that followed for me concerned human rights, and in Belarusian conditions it means with political overtones. Political overtones are not necessarily connected with participation in political processes, like the cases of Babarika and Tsikhanouski. These are cases about the suppression by the state of the realisation of human rights: freedom of speech, freedom of assembly... For this purpose, the state used either administrative cases or criminal cases to intimidate — as in the case of the “White Legion”, which took place against the background of protests...".
"...Belarus is not just a territory. It is people. What I started with — I have always been interested in people. If you are interested in them, if it is important for you to work for them, if you can help them with your modest contribution — you are obliged to help, and it is not so important where you do it. Yes, I can't open prison doors and I don't have anywhere to write complaints anymore. But education, enlightenment — I believe in that. If we don't do it now, if we don't study human rights, if we don't inculcate this culture into society, if we don't talk about human rights violations, if we don't prepare a state based on the rule of law and professionals for it, then Belarus will soon be left only a scorched field. Look what they do now in Belarus with students, with lawyers — everyone is forced to keep silent. But if we agree with this, then why do people sit in prisons, for what?".
